Talk:Nokris, Supplicant to Savathûn: Difference between revisions

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==Taken orb==
when playing regicide on heroic and killing the taken knight and then entering the area near dark blade (without the portal) then killing the 3 wardens that spawn with one super (get them to low health) then killing the taken, heading back in the portal and going to the same area (through the portal) a large taken spawn orb appears at the end of the room.
when playing regicide on heroic and killing the taken knight and then entering the area near dark blade (without the portal) then killing the 3 wardens that spawn with one super (get them to low health) then killing the taken, heading back in the portal and going to the same area (through the portal) a large taken spawn orb appears at the end of the room.


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edit: this event dose not occur on the daily version {{Unsigned|195.195.140.66}}
edit: this event dose not occur on the daily version {{Unsigned|195.195.140.66}}
==Conjecture==
{{Conjecture}}
*There are two prevailing hypotheses as to the identity of Nokris.
:The first hypothesis is that Nokris was a brother of Crota, and was erased by the [[Vex]] when they invaded the Dreadnaught.<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XXXVIII:_The_partition_of_death|XXXVIII: The partition of death]]''</ref><ref name="Eye">'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XXXIX:_open_your_eye_:_go_into_it|XXXIX: open your eye : go into it]]''</ref><ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XL:_An_Emperor_For_All_Outcomes|XL: An Emperor For all Outcomes]]''</ref> This predated the creation of [[The World's Grave]], the source of all Hive history and knowledge, and due to the Vex's mastery over time, observing [[The Gorgons]]' power,<ref name="Gorgon">'''Bungie (2014/9/9)''', ''[[Destiny]]: PlayStation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Vex_Axis_Minds#The_Gorgons|The Gorgons]]''</ref> Nokris was "forgotten" by the Hive, only surviving as a statue, much like how [[Praedyth]]'s gear and minor references in texts survived his erasure.
:There are two problems with this, however. The first is that the Vex are not omnipotent, and indeed the extent of their power is limited to realms they control. The High War was a confusing place, defying the Vex logic. The second is that the Hive godkings are incredibly powerful, with Oryx defeating Quria's every attempt to simulate him,<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XLII:_.3C.3E.7C.3C.3E.7C.3C.3E|XLII: <>|<>|<>]]''</ref><ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XLIII:_End_of_Failed_Timeline|XLIII: End of Failed Timeline]]''</ref> Savathûn merely dismissing the Vex as "blowing up";<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XLIV:_strict_proof_eternal|XLIV: strict proof eternal]]''</ref> and when [[Ir Anûk, Deathsinger|the]] [[Ir Halak, Deathsinger|Hive]] went into the Vex world, they suffered only the loss of power.<ref name="Eye"/> As paracausal beings—"para", beside; "causal", time; literally outside of ordinary physics—[[Ascendant Hive]] refuse to obey ordinary rules, beholden only to [[the Sword Logic]] as their law. Guardians themselves are subject to the Vex's power only inside the [[Vault of Glass]], where the Vex reign supreme;<ref name="Gorgon"/><ref>'''Bungie (2014/9/9)''', ''[[Destiny]]: PlayStation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Vex_Axis_Minds#The_Templar|The Templar]]''</ref><ref>'''Bungie (2014/9/9)''', ''[[Destiny]]: PlayStation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Vex_Axis_Minds#Atheon.2C_Time.27s_Conflux|Atheon, Time's Conflux]]''</ref> nothing suggests that Crota stumbled into the Vault, and indeed his survival ("''come home glorious, or die forgotten''") speaks against Nokris' erasure. Lastly, an argument from silence: Nokris was not erased by the Vex because they never touched him. Everything in the Books of Sorrow relating to the Vex stems from Crota and Savathûn, and only Crota was thrown into the Vex conflux.
:The second hypothesis rests upon three factors. Nokris was Crota's mother, betrayed Oryx, and was killed; but out of sentimentality, her statue was left alone. Crota's mother in the Books is unnamed, Oryx speaking to his son about her offhandedly,<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#XXXVI:_Eater_of_Hope|XXXVI: Eater of Hope]]''</ref> and nothing more appears about her. Stemming from the Hebrew word "Nokri" is the definition "adulteress", which is "unfaithful woman"; in the context of the Hive, Nokris betrayed Oryx, attempting to kill him and seize his power, but failed. Similarly, "Nox" was the primordial mother of the Greco-Roman deities, "Thanatos" (Death) and "Hypnos" (Sleep), with her counterpart "Erebus" (Darkness). Finally, the [[Crucible]] map [[Cathedral of Dusk]].<ref>'''Bungie (2015/9/15)''', ''[[Destiny]]: [[The Taken King]] Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, [[Grimoire]]: [[Grimoire:Activities/Crucible_Arenas#Cathedral_of_Dusk|Cathedral of Dusk]]''</ref> The flavor text suggests that it is a burial site for someone close to Oryx—logic dictates it is for Crota, but one of the possibilities is the unnamed mother of Crota as the text mentions "lover". Ultimately this last hypothesis is conjecture and rests upon shaky evidence, as the "adulteress" definition is only used a few times in the Bible, whereas the "foreigner" is overwhelming used instead.
:Ultimately Nokris is shrouded in mystery until further information is available.
{{Conjecture end}}

Revision as of 23:17, April 24, 2018

Taken orb

when playing regicide on heroic and killing the taken knight and then entering the area near dark blade (without the portal) then killing the 3 wardens that spawn with one super (get them to low health) then killing the taken, heading back in the portal and going to the same area (through the portal) a large taken spawn orb appears at the end of the room.

(is this a clue??)

edit: this event dose not occur on the daily version —This unsigned comment was made by 195.195.140.66 (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

Conjecture

"Don't stop looking. Just, you know, cite your sources."
Warning: The following information is conjecture and does not necessarily represent official information.
  • There are two prevailing hypotheses as to the identity of Nokris.
The first hypothesis is that Nokris was a brother of Crota, and was erased by the Vex when they invaded the Dreadnaught.[1][2][3] This predated the creation of The World's Grave, the source of all Hive history and knowledge, and due to the Vex's mastery over time, observing The Gorgons' power,[4] Nokris was "forgotten" by the Hive, only surviving as a statue, much like how Praedyth's gear and minor references in texts survived his erasure.
There are two problems with this, however. The first is that the Vex are not omnipotent, and indeed the extent of their power is limited to realms they control. The High War was a confusing place, defying the Vex logic. The second is that the Hive godkings are incredibly powerful, with Oryx defeating Quria's every attempt to simulate him,[5][6] Savathûn merely dismissing the Vex as "blowing up";[7] and when the Hive went into the Vex world, they suffered only the loss of power.[2] As paracausal beings—"para", beside; "causal", time; literally outside of ordinary physics—Ascendant Hive refuse to obey ordinary rules, beholden only to the Sword Logic as their law. Guardians themselves are subject to the Vex's power only inside the Vault of Glass, where the Vex reign supreme;[4][8][9] nothing suggests that Crota stumbled into the Vault, and indeed his survival ("come home glorious, or die forgotten") speaks against Nokris' erasure. Lastly, an argument from silence: Nokris was not erased by the Vex because they never touched him. Everything in the Books of Sorrow relating to the Vex stems from Crota and Savathûn, and only Crota was thrown into the Vex conflux.
The second hypothesis rests upon three factors. Nokris was Crota's mother, betrayed Oryx, and was killed; but out of sentimentality, her statue was left alone. Crota's mother in the Books is unnamed, Oryx speaking to his son about her offhandedly,[10] and nothing more appears about her. Stemming from the Hebrew word "Nokri" is the definition "adulteress", which is "unfaithful woman"; in the context of the Hive, Nokris betrayed Oryx, attempting to kill him and seize his power, but failed. Similarly, "Nox" was the primordial mother of the Greco-Roman deities, "Thanatos" (Death) and "Hypnos" (Sleep), with her counterpart "Erebus" (Darkness). Finally, the Crucible map Cathedral of Dusk.[11] The flavor text suggests that it is a burial site for someone close to Oryx—logic dictates it is for Crota, but one of the possibilities is the unnamed mother of Crota as the text mentions "lover". Ultimately this last hypothesis is conjecture and rests upon shaky evidence, as the "adulteress" definition is only used a few times in the Bible, whereas the "foreigner" is overwhelming used instead.
Ultimately Nokris is shrouded in mystery until further information is available.
Conjecture ends here.
  1. ^ Bungie (2015/9/15), Destiny: The Taken King Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: XXXVIII: The partition of death
  2. ^ a b Bungie (2015/9/15), Destiny: The Taken King Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: XXXIX: open your eye : go into it
  3. ^ Bungie (2015/9/15), Destiny: The Taken King Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: XL: An Emperor For all Outcomes
  4. ^ a b Bungie (2014/9/9), Destiny: PlayStation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: The Gorgons
  5. ^ Bungie (2015/9/15), Destiny: The Taken King Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: XLII: <>|<>|<>
  6. ^ Bungie (2015/9/15), Destiny: The Taken King Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: XLIII: End of Failed Timeline
  7. ^ Bungie (2015/9/15), Destiny: The Taken King Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: XLIV: strict proof eternal
  8. ^ Bungie (2014/9/9), Destiny: PlayStation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: The Templar
  9. ^ Bungie (2014/9/9), Destiny: PlayStation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: Atheon, Time's Conflux
  10. ^ Bungie (2015/9/15), Destiny: The Taken King Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: XXXVI: Eater of Hope
  11. ^ Bungie (2015/9/15), Destiny: The Taken King Playstation 4, Activision Blizzard, Grimoire: Cathedral of Dusk
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