User:Stioceon, Creative Mind

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Charlie83880619

I haven’t done any work for that yet, so you are free to add

Yeah, agreed, we don't see any explicit evidence of him being able to pull III into 3D space, but then again we do see the House of Exile use all sorts of technology that manipulate/use dark matter (e.g. the terminals that activate Matterspark, Relocators, Mattermorph, whatever tech allows them to refine dark matter into Ether); who's to say that the Exiles aren't capable of building a device to bring III into 3D space?

I personally think that it would be best to simply leave the cause of III's first death ambiguous- while having Maya kill III offscreen before The Message makes sense, we simply don't know if that's what happened, and until we have confirmation one way or the other, this interpretation is speculative and shouldn't be presented as though it were definitively true.

Likewise, the proposed explanation for why III's corpse disappears and reappears is also speculative; we do not know why III died a second time, and we do not know whether reviving III transported it back into higher-dimensional space, or whether it remained in 3D space and died again because it couldn't survive there. I interpreted its disappearance as signifying that it exited 3D space and therefore could no longer be seen, but honestly this is speculation as well- again, we really just do not know exactly what is happening here.

As for the message from Maya, good point- but, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, we simply do not know what exactly she meant by that. Maybe she did kill III offscreen, and then came back to kill III again on-screen at the end of the mission - both are viable interpretations.

Anyway- not trying to be annoying or confrontational with all this, but I do think we have a genuinely confusing plot element on our hands, and I think we should reflect this in the article by not over-interpreting what we're shown. However, if there's something in-game or in the lore that provides context that I'm overlooking here, please let me know :)

Yeah, I agree that would make sense, otherwise the timeline of events is a bit confusing... but do we have any explicit confirmation that this is what actually happened?

During III's final message, it states "you stand here that i would not die alone again / still i die afraid at your sister's command"; this seems to indicate that the second time III died, it was at Maya's command, but it doesn't necessarily imply that Maya killed III the first time around.

The Lore entry cited in the article (The Immanent - VI. Gloria Mundi) has Maya telling III "come, coward", but the entry doesn't indicate whether this happened before or after the events of the cutscene at the end of "The Message" mission; thus, the vision of Maya killing III could equally have been a flashback or have been showing current events as they happened.

As for why III was dead and in three-dimensional space at the start of the mission... yeah, I don't know, I might have missed a key bit of exposition, but as far as I can tell it's not explained. My assumption while playing through the mission was that Levaszk had somehow killed III by pulling it into 3D space, so that he could use its dark matter to feed the singularity more effectively, but I don't think that's explicitly stated either.

At any rate: To reduce ambiguity while avoiding speculation, I think it would be best to have the timeline of events described in the article as follows:

1. III dies at some point after the reactor meltdown mission (because Lodi is getting visions from III as the mission is happening), and its corpse is in 3D space (presumably because it got killed as it was pulled into 3D space... somehow). Whether Maya is responsible for this death is left unclear.

2. III's 3D corpse is discovered by the Guardian during "The Message", and Levaszk states that he is harvesting its mass for the singularity. Whether Levaszk is responsible for III's death is left unclear.

3. III is revived, causing its corpse to vanish, presumably because it re-entered higher-dimensional space.

4. A vision of Maya killing III is shown by III to Ikora and/or the Guardian. It is left unclear when the events in the vision occurred.

5. III dies again, and its corpse re-enters 3D space. It is left unclear whether Maya killed it this time, or whether it just died again because the Haul's revival effects were temporary.

Thoughts?

Do you even know what the Evocator is saying then?

Sadge, was hoping for a translation already.